Current Trump cases

They already did come out. Nothing criminal. Why do you think lawyers for the FBI were altering emails to get warrants?

And I thought the Q fell off the dock and and had a loose screw for looking for JFK.....

Appraisal companies engaged by banks aren't 'big' enough to do the actual work and must only rely on the owners input. Good point.

I didn't make that point. Why do you keep reframing my points? I didn't say anything about company sizes.

Accountants don't test deposits is fucking awesome though. Of course they do, all the time. I don't think you understand how audits work. Also, I didn't 'ignore that'. Its silly. Those auditors audited and tested the numbers for years and now, after political pressure mounts, they absolve themselves. Why didn't Anderson just do that with Enron, put out a statement and boom, all good. So these auditors test receivables, because, contrary to what you think, they do that, year after year using bank statements and proof of deposits, etc. Every year they find the deposits never happened but keep providing unqualified opinions for decades, lol. Ok man.

I am referring to appraisals/accounts not just accountants. Auditing is not fool proof, auditing doesn't catch wrong doings of everything. You exagerrated before "5x rents!" when you can fudge plenty of different figures, including length of term on leases, operating expenses showing them to be lower (by a small amount, it doesn't have to be huge) whereby it won't be further auditing because it looks normal even though it may not be the truth.

Yes, shady businesses continue to do this year after year with shady accountants and the banks rely on them while also letting it go on their own end because they want to make deals. They get their commission and don't care what happens after that as can be seen as how many times Trump defaults on loans (whereby no American bank will give him loans because he has such shady business practices).

gain, you simply have no clue on what is asked for in an SRE. But yes, you did inadvertently get something correct. You can establish value from many different aspects, that's correct! Cash flows and cap rates and comps, etc. So we agree valuations can very drastically. So we agree valuations can very drastically.

There was nothing inadvertant about me getting that correct. I know what I'm talking about. 

Again, you asked "what's fair market value? Is it cash flows? Is it cap rates"? You were asking rhetorical questions and I framed it letting you know that no, a cash flow or cap rate is not market value. That was not inadvertent, your framing of the question, rhetorically was wrong. You were not looking for me to educate on what fair market value is because you were the one who brought it up. I didn't claim that values can or cannot VARY drastically. What I did state was that owners/management companies can provide fraudulent information to their accountants they hire as well as to taxing authorities.

Lets say a 30,000 square foot piece of land has little cash flow, an old store that does a 750K a year in NOI. Cap rates on commercial are 6ish, so a valuation of what, 12.5MM. Recent trades are for 1000 a foot though, you know, because you can demo and build a high rise, so valuation of 30MM. Lets say the same property makes 3MM, so on cap rate its worth 50MM, but you want to demo and repurpose, so you use the per foot price. Which is correct? Why is one wrong? You simply have no clue what your talking about.

You asked a bunch of questions followed by stating I have no clue what I'm talking about? What's wrong with you? Which statement of mine is incorrect that you're addressing with all of those questions, pretending that you're speaking a language I cannot understand. You're beating your chest, stupidly, pretending you know something I don't... about commercial real estate appraising.

Have you ever closed a construction loan in the 9 figures or even been involved in such a transaction? Its not simple and banks, appraisers, debt funds, mezz guys, pref guys, etc. aren't simply relying on the borrowers information. Its verified independently. Its absolutely silly.

You should stop with dick measuring contest. If I tell you yes, then you'll use that against me, if I tell you no, you'll use that against me. You're not trying to have a honest discussion. All you do is go for personal attacks. You started the personal attacks, you excuse your personal attacks "hurr hurr because it's true!".

Appraisers do not independently verify every single operating expense. If they get a lease that is doctored to show 10 years when it is in fact only 3 years, the appraiser is relying on the information that provided by the borrower to be correct. They have assumptions in the report that protect the appraiser via relying on their provided numbers. If something looks off they ask about it.

One of the arguments made by these LOCK HIM UP! types is that the values of the properties differ on the SRE and the tax books. Lol, you do realize how absurd that is, right?

The claim is that Trump org. is providing different to the banks, and different numbers (occupancies/rental rates etc) to the taxing authorities. 

This is in response to everything except your last point. You really don't know what you're talking about. I mean, the idea that CBRE or JLL or the like don't know what operating expenses should be and can't question something that is so far off as to be criminal is silly. Its not 'dick measuring' its just obvious that you have no idea on the process. We've addressed every point, I'm comfortable with my position and my argument that banks will conduct extremely thorough diligence and you're comfortable that you're correct that auditors, accountants and appraisers are reliant on Trump misinformation and with appraisers in particular, they simply aren't compensated enough to do the required work:



Disagree. If something seems off market, they will question and test it.



Why do taxing authorities need '(occupancies/rental rates etc.)?  What does that even mean?  Anyway, We know that the claim is 100% accurate, tax books and loan asset values differ completely. For example, you're depreciating an asset on your tax books, not so much on your loan numbers, where the asset is actually appreciating. Also, you may get dinged for deferred maintenance on the asset value in a loan, but you're not getting tax credit for money you didn't spend. Question is, what do you think of that argument? Legitimate?

Ya, some. Like the CBREs, JLLs, and Cushmans of the world. But yes, they do a lot more than appraisals. Appraisals are a bit of a formality really, you know the ballpark they're going to come in.

JLL/CBRE/C&W will do appraisals, just not any of their own assets.

and yes, the whole business just seems like its circular and makes me question how everyone values anything.

Like say in Texas - a non-disclosure state. Appraisers can really only rely on word of mouth (or if they get a hold of documents for properties they are appraising for closing costs). So you can have a small market in a non-disclosure state with 1 or 2 realtors who can lie to someone who calls about how much something sold for and they set the market with that lie...

Why would they need to appraise their own assets in this scenario? We're talking about a developers assets, not their own. Of course there are questions on how everyone values everything, which is something the prosecutor struggled in their presentation to the DA and struggled so much with the 'hot' bench. There is a wide range of values that you can argue are all legitimate. Good luck in court.

Regardless, would be a shit appraiser if he or she had to solely depend on word of mouth. The big guys that would be engaged on a deal in the 9 figures would have access to better information.

What is left for us to discuss here? I honestly don't think you have any idea about an SRE or the diligence required in a transaction of this size. You think you do and I don't understand how taxes work or something. Just reread any of my responses to your questions if your curious as to my position.

you literally asked "Why do taxing authorities need '(occupancies/rental rates etc.)? What does that even mean?". That would indicate you didn't/don't understand why a county assessor would want those figured and I explained it to you.